Ep 22 - Li'l Edward and the Second Son

Join us today to discuss the murky Burgoyne line and also the things you learn when you are looking for something else... like what is the "orphan train".  

https://www.opc-cornwall.org/index.php
https://christinabakerkline.com/novels/orphan-train/

Transcript

Kim: 0:04

Hello, and welcome back to Chasing Hazel's Tales, a family history podcast presented to you by two registered nurses and all around family historians and sisters. If you've got family history, we want to talk about it. I'm Kim McLaughlin.

Laura: 0:19

And I'm Laura Ireland. And today we're gonna continue on with our discussion of the Burgoyne line, and we do have one little correction. Last week we Kim mentioned a location in British Columbia that was named for a related Burgoyne, and it was not an island as. We had said, but it's called Burgoyne Bay, and it was named by a Captain Richards in 1859 after the Victoria Cross holder, Hugh Talbot Burgoyne, and Burgoyne was serving on the H M s Ganges, the flagship of the Royal Navy's Pacific Station at the time. And Richard's named many features during his survey after people or ships of the station. So, of course Hugh was the only son of John Fox Burgoyne and died at sea with no male heirs to continue the Burgoyne line

Kim: 1:12

on that level. Right? So we're, we're not there. That's not us. That, nope, that ain't us. It is reported in some places that it is us. It's not, and

Laura: 1:23

we also, I mean, we should say there are no known male heirs or heirs of any. Right. I mean,

Kim: 1:32

we can say that and after, because we do

Laura: 1:34

know that, we do know that things happen. Right. But it would be unknown and they wouldn't be named Burgoyne, I guess.

Kim: 1:39

Right. That, that we're aware of. Mm-hmm. So what we're gonna continue on today was, is our theory that we're related to General Johnny Burgoyne of Revolutionary War fame or infamy, one or the other. And we chase this, line because. Sadie Burgoyne McConnell in the fifties 1950s had done a ton of research and she created a family tree that showed what we're related to him. So we chased Where,

Laura: 2:08

where's Henry Lewis Gates Jr. When you need him.

Kim: 2:11

Well, I called him. They're not answering my call. They're not answering your call. I tried. Well, and I tried. I even sent in for the, the Finding your roots thing? Yeah. I sent in for that too. But nobody's, nobody's called. I don't know how your phone's not ringing. No, and I think that the contest is open until June, I think or something. Yeah, it was quite a while, so I know it's not over yet, so you can do it if you want to. Maybe, maybe you'll have a better spin than I will. Well, maybe, who

Laura: 2:37

knows? Maybe you've been chosen and you just don't

Kim: 2:38

know yet. That's true. My begging may have worked. Please, please help me. Anyway, so that's what we're doing, and we do it because Sadie said so. And and we, and you know, she was a hard worker and she, she has a lot of detail in all of her notes that, that I have looked at.

Laura: 2:56

Right. And there's quite a bit of documentation to support her research.

Kim: 2:59

Right, right. Up until a certain point. Yeah. But she, I, I don't see any of her sources. Just that she wrote it, you know, she found things wrote out. Oh. So I have no idea where she got any of this information, but I have been able to recreate a lot of it. So it's, she's really worked really, really hard. So anyway, kudos to, to Sadie. Yep. And so things to remember for today when Laura and I are chatting is that there's a couple of things. Number one, birth date, So when, when you go back in time, people were not as precise with birth dates. When they, if you look on a census and they say, Hey, he was 40 years old. He may have been 38, he may have been 35, and they just guessed to the nearest five years or whoever. You know, if, if husband was out working and someone else was answering the census question, they might have got it wrong by a few years. It's not always a perfect science. Right? Right. So, Depending on what they, you know, what they told people, it was, it wasn't important as it is now back then. So I always take the dates that I find of things with a grain of salt. And to that, and I say Sadie, some, some of the dates in her tree. That she created push, you know, the boundaries of who can procreate. You know, it's like, is he old enough to have children? I don't know. So it, it's just a thing. It's just, you know, you have to take a lot of the ages with a grain of salt and and mm-hmm. Find other ways to prove who's who. So that's one thing. And another thing for today is just to avoid confusion because there's just so much in the Burgoyne line to talk about. I'm only gonna be talking about the male line from General Johnny down, trying to connect it to our Cornwall Burgoynes. That's it, just the males. Okay. Because I can't go into the other family members. I mean, they're fabulous and I'm sure they all have really great stories. But I think for our

Laura: 5:02

purposes that would be confusing. It's very confusing. We've got enough names and dates and times and places. That's right.

Kim: 5:10

And we just need that. All I want is that mail line just to prove if we are of that Burgoyne on line, but. Also a lot of the information that I have used has come from the Cornwall online parish clerks, and I just want to give them a shout out and I'll put the, I'll put link in show notes, but you can get all kinds of free information from their websites. The parish clerks, it's really amazing. They do a good job. And are they helpful to you

Laura: 5:36

at, you know, communicating through the computer? Did you have to go there to get

Kim: 5:41

any? It's, I was all done by computer. Okay. And there was a helpful person back in the 2000, it's been a while. It's been a long while. But that helped me look for some things. And we had great discussions over this stuff because she was, she was in that area and mm-hmm. She knew how to get information, so she was helpful to me. She, she, she worked hard. But very nice. So what we can confirm is that according to Sadie Edward, William Burgoyne was born in 1830 in Cornwall. He was the one who died in Prince Edward Island, and we all kind of funneled through him. Just to, just to confirm, so he does show up in the 1841 census in Cornwall this little Edward, and he was in a household, the, in the census. He was in the household of John Sheer, s h e e r, working as an agricultural laborer. And he was only 10 years old. He was in another household working the farm. But I did find at this little Ed, we'll call him Little Edward because he was a child at the time. Little Edward, I found his mother and father also in the 1841 census. And they were in their regular household and they were also agricultural laborers. So they were all working farms. And they are the family. It was, so, it was John Little Edward and his family, they emigrated to Canada. And so they emigrated, they showed up in Canada in 1843. So there's no use to looking at, at any records for us. Mm-hmm. After that. So we start there. Okay.

Laura: 7:14

And that makes him the great grandson, the one who traveled

Kim: 7:19

over. John, the father of, of Little Edward was the grandson of General Johnny. Okay. So Edward William

Laura: 7:28

who traveled over right. Is the great

Kim: 7:30

grandson. Yes. Correct. Okay. You are correct. And that's according to Sadie. Mm-hmm. And that's just another thing, but but Right. That's all we can go on. That's all we can, that's all I have to go on. Yeah. And so this father John who started his family in Cornwall we find that he was potentially born around 1804 because he had his first child in 1825. He and his wife. Okay. Edward William was in 1830, but his, but the little Edward had an older brother. So so that kind of meshes. All right, so we have General Johnny and his second son who was born in 1786. Mm-hmm. And then this John is supposedly the son of the second son. Does that make sense? It's sometimes easier for me because you don't have to say Edward John, Edward John all the time. Right. Well, and

Laura: 8:25

he's, I. The other one didn't have any sons, so he

8:28

Right.

Kim: 8:30

So, but what I wanna mention is that the timeline works out fairly well. Mm-hmm. So, John General, Johnny was born 1722, his second son, 1786. And so that, that's works out cuz General Johnny was way older when he had children. Mm-hmm. So he was born in 1786 and that's been confirmed by birth certificate. And that's a happy you know, a happy circumstance because you had a rich family and they recorded it St. Margaret's Westminster. So we have Edward William 1786, and then his son John, and we can only kind of guess that he would've been born around 1804, somewhere around there. Okay. And so that timeline. Kind of works. And then, then we have Edward William, and so John and Edward went to Prince Edward Island. So the thing is, we can't figure out, we can't place General Johnny's second son in Cornwall because General Johnny's second son was supposed to have had had a child in Cornwall in 1804. Oh. Mm-hmm. How did he get there? So the question is so what I did was I tried to go the other way. I tried to find everything I could about the second son to figure out where did he go, what did he do, did he end up in Cornwall, connected to this family because this family was, was born in Cornwall and then left for Prince Edward Island. So where is General Johnny's second son? Is he in Cornwall? I can't find him. I've looked. So some of the things that I've found is that I, I thought, well, I could just start looking around and I've looked at death certificates and, and they're really, really vague. They just say, you know, John Burgoyne died age 25 or whatever. Mm-hmm. Something like that. Mm-hmm. And it's just so vague. You can't tell if they're the right ones or not. So what I did was I thought, well, I'll start looking around. And these are the places that I've looked, just to be able to find that second son to see if he went to Cornwall, because that, and this is the one

Laura: 10:46

who was just, was he, how old was he? Six years old when he went to Lancaster.

Kim: 10:51

Right? He was just a child. Yep.

Laura: 10:53

And then there's no real documentation after that. No.

Kim: 10:57

Right. He disappears.

Laura: 10:58

So he may not, he may not, he may be a wander.

Kim: 11:01

Yep. Maybe he, well

Laura: 11:02

he may have been, doesn't feel tied to anyone. Mm-hmm.

Kim: 11:05

Place, you know? Right. He, and that, and so that, would it, because he was young and maybe not so connected to his siblings, maybe. Maybe he did. Right? He was much younger, wasn't he? Yep. Yep. So what I did was I thought, well, if he's a wanderer or, you know, I just, what if I just look around at Lancashire to see if anybody knows anything? Mm-hmm. So I did I hired a researcher, a ge, a genealogist in Lancashire, and he looked through all Lord Derby's papers in the university there, the local university? Mm-hmm. Because that's where they held all of the don't tell Andrew. So that's where they, that's where they housed all of Lord Derby's papers. So I said, go in there and find out anything. Maybe because, you know, Lord Derby was supposed to pay for these children's education and wellbeing. So I thought just look and see if any of the, if they went to col, if he went to college, did he get, buy a commission, you know, in the military? Did he do anything? Did Lord Derby pay for any of this or. Does he mention him in the papers, like letters or something saying, Hey, you know, the kids are doing great, or, or something

Laura: 12:12

like that? No. Was there any money given to the family to take care of these children?

Kim: 12:17

I don't know. Like, did,

Laura: 12:18

did General Johnny have any money when he died? And, you know, it's not, would he have sent it along with his kids? Like, yeah, you know, a good thing to

Kim: 12:25

do, but it wasn't mentioned. That I could find. But that, I mean, the, the probably the resources are immense. I just, I, you know, I'm here on this side of the pond. Yeah. We don't know. So also I ordered in books written by John Fox about his life because he was quite famous and very well, very well thought of. In Great Britain. So I thought maybe, you know, in his personal accounts, he may mention his brothers and sisters and things like that. Yeah, no, doesn't nothing, he does mention his kids or his wife or something, but, and that's great. That's okay. But he doesn't mention his brothers or sisters. And I looked at his sisters he also had two sisters and they married well and had ni, you know, had successful families. Nothing I could find nothing attached to them about their brother, their younger. But that doesn't mean it's not out there. Right, right. Also, I wrote to the current Lord Derby, I wrote him a letter, but guess what? He responded. Really, my question was, do you have a library there? And it's called Knowsley Hall. Knowsley Hall is where is the seat of Lord Derby. Mm-hmm. And his name is Edward Stanley. And he has a nice family and I guess, and I wrote and said, Hey listen, do you have any records there or perhaps diaries or a library or anything, you know, I said, this is what I'm looking for. And he was very co you know, I just said basically, I'm coming over. Can I look? I didn't, this was before your trip to England. Yeah, but. Just on a hunch, he might say, look, we have a lib. I was kind of hoping that he had a librarian. That might do a lookup or something, but he didn't, he was very kind and said, geez, you know, we don't keep those papers here. They're all kept somewhere else or whatever. Mm-hmm.

Laura: 14:17

Was there a restraining order involved?

Kim: 14:19

Yes, it was attached to the restraining order. A cease and desist. So anyway, so he said, no, we don't carry that kind of stuff here, but thank you. Oh, that was nice of him. Yeah, very nice. And I just, you know, I kept the letter. I said, well, at least he responded. But you can see what I did was I tried to ascertain what happened to this kid, this the second son. And did he grow up, become of age and wander on down to Cornwall? I can't, I can't find. So that's this thing I'm stuck on. So are we related to general Johnny? Well, potentially, potentially. It's true. You know, the dates kind of line up enough so that, but you just can't find the, there's no, there's no links, no documents. Yeah. So we have our ed, our little Edward and his dad John, and John is supposedly the son of this second son. Yep. And there's no mention anywhere. You know, hey, general Johnny's my, my grand, you know, my grandfather cut me some slack or give me some land, or, you know, any of that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Laura: 15:34

So makes me wonder if any of that information was lost as well, where, you know, the six-year-old was sent to live some, you know, maybe they just kind of dropped it from the family. You know what I mean? The family story, right. The whole connection to the general after the, the death and moving to the new town and, yep.

Kim: 15:57

So, I don't know. Just, just spitballing. Yeah, spitballing. And there's no con, I just can't connect the dots. Now there are quite a few Burgoyne in Cornwall. Mm-hmm. There is a, there is a family line there and so many families and so. You know, that is, that is a seat of Burgoynes, but whether or not they're related to any of the ones up there, my, you know, my whole journey has been to connect to the general, not necessarily to map out everything, but mm-hmm. Perhaps that will be where I have to go. Cuz I just, I just can't find it. So I'm looking for recommendations. Does that, does that make sense? I mean, we just can't connect. Did that second son ever went? Or even survived, right? He could have died from cholera for all we know or something. You know, he could have. You know what this, what this does, what this story here on this podcast does is make me wanna go start researching, go back again. Cause there's so many there's so many resources that just keep adding and adding and adding. And I'm thinking I should probably just dive right back in and see what's new and see what new I can find. Cuz it's gotta be something about this somewhere. Mm-hmm. But there isn't, I can't find it. And this is where we are. So I cannot prove that. General Johnny is our direct ancestor. So you need a leave of absence. I need a, I need a, yeah. And also I'd like to do, I'd like to exhume General Johnny's body out of Westminster Abbey and get some d n a and see if we can't connect to someone, you know, that way I, you know, they did it with Richard III. Why can't they do it with General Johnny? Yeah,

Laura: 17:39

but we'd have to. Connect would have to ask some that a male person. Yeah. Right. It, it can't be our brother because we know we're not genetically linked.

Kim: 17:51

But I know, but I know those who are. That's right. Hmm. Yeah. Anyway, that's what I wanna do, but I'm not going to, you know, That's about as likely as getting on finding your roots? I think so. Actually

Laura: 18:04

this was a pretty good example. Maybe it's a very complex one, but a good example of all the different things you can try Right. When you're, when you're trying to f. Find some of these missing connections or documents or something. You're desperate. You can write to Lord Derby and he'll

Kim: 18:21

let you know and he'll say no thank you. Yeah, he said he was, there was no snarky. I, I, I sound snarky, but he was not at all. It was very business-like and very, thank you so much for your interest and, and you know, we don't have any of that stuff. It's all at the university. So did you save his letter? Yes. Now, was this

Laura: 18:41

actual mail or was it

Kim: 18:42

email? No, actual mail back before email

Laura: 18:46

was, yeah, we should put that on the show notes. Yeah, if you could find

Kim: 18:50

it. Do you know I I, oh, I've got it right, right here. Anyway. All right. Yeah, we hold onto that, so, but maybe we'll black out his address. So,

Laura: 19:01

so the five people who look at it, don't run,

Kim: 19:03

send them a letter. So I know it's confusing. But you know, I just can't make the connections solid and mm-hmm. And I was telling, telling you that I do ha when I, when I went on to the Cornwall online parish clerks there was someone who was helping me and they developed a potential alternate line, and I think we'll go over that next week because I can't do it this week. I'll, I'll ex my brain will explode. Yeah. But the alternate line is very plausible. And

Laura: 19:38

so just briefly, that alternate line, does it stray from the Burgoyne line or is it within the Burgoyne? It's within the, to still make a

Kim: 19:51

Burgoyne connection. It's, it's all Burgoynes, but it's not general Johnny. Oh. So, okay. So, okay. But it's plausible and until, And, and the thing was, this one has receipts. Mm-hmm. This one has actual registers and birth registers and marriages and wills and all those kinds of things that make it plausible. At least you can, it's on paper, you can see it. This line is, this line is probably more likely. But

Laura: 20:18

I, and from all of the shows I watch,

Kim: 20:22

it's, it's important

Laura: 20:24

to go where the evidence leads you. Right. Not. Pick your destination and then try to make the pieces

Kim: 20:30

fit Right. And that's what I'm doing with Sadie's Line. There's a destination and I can't make it. I could make it fit if I could prove where that, where the second sun went, where that darn little sun went. That's right. Where is he? The little, little guy. Yeah. If, if I, so until that's answered, I can't say for sure. Right. We can't. Yep. And I have no idea, no sources from, from Sadie to say where she got that information. I have no. Right.

Laura: 20:56

Cause it, it could be

Kim: 20:57

absolutely valid. It, I mean, everything else that she's ever had has been valid. Mm-hmm. You know, I have found to be true. So that's why it's like, I, I can't discount her work. She, you know, she went to England. Maybe she talked to someone who knew stuff I don't know, but, You know she Right,

Laura: 21:15

because this was now what, 70 years ago or so? Yeah. That, holy cow. The 1950s were 70 years ago. That's a little

Kim: 21:25

Are you holding your forehead? I am. You got a headache all of a sudden?

Laura: 21:29

Yeah. No, I just, I think I need a nap. I

Kim: 21:32

feel old. Okay. Next week we'll talk about the alternate line just to maybe, or, or how about this? What if we just say, if anybody wants to look at, wants to know about the alternate line, let me know. Okay. And I will, and I will send it to them because I, I sent it to you so you mm-hmm. You saw it. But it's, it's, it's a working document, just showing what, what the, what we think is the other line, which we think is more likely. Until, you know, until then I'm still holding out that maybe Sadie's Right. Because can't prove she's not right. Really can't prove. Yeah. And I, yeah, I'm just, I'm just being respectful of her work because mm-hmm. You know, she, she put a lot into it. And also on that note, so we talked about, I just wanna do a little tidbit. We talked about the Burgoyne line before and Of course we have in the past couple, couple of weeks, but there's a, a family member who would be, so our Stan, it would be his uncle Richard. Richard lived in the same town as Stan and Richard was brother to Lewis. Lewis, okay. Right? Mm-hmm. So they were brothers Richard Was born 1860 North Grandville Prince Edward Island. And then he went to Vanceboro and then came to Howland where he worked in the factory there. And it was called, mm, international Pulp and Paper Company. Maybe it changed hands. It used to be like a bag. It, it used to make paper bags there. It was right on the river in Howland. Oh. Mm-hmm. Yep. So anyway, that's where he worked. So the weird story about this is, and this, this is what is written in the genealogy that I received in Stan's packet of information. So who wrote this? It may have been Sadie, I don't know. But it, it, it was all the compiled genealogy of all the Burgoyne. So it said that Richard cause he, so he was born 1860, had a family, and I'm not gonna go into those names. But he had a family and this is what they said. And the reason I'm telling this story is because it's. Interesting. The stories they tell to protect some truths. And we, and that's our thing, right, Laura? There were so many

Laura: 23:48

truths protected.

Kim: 23:49

That's right. And, and I'm totally cool with that. That's why I'm not gonna use other names. I'm just, because they, they, you know, that was their thing, so, right. Yep. This is what is written. Richard Burgoyne, after they did all of his details disappeared on his daughter Susan's Wedding Day in 1903. So in Howland, Mm-hmm. And he's never been heard from since many and varied are the tales told and opinions given of his disappearance. But the one that seems most probable to me was the one my brother Lewis told me, and he was there at the time. It seems Uncle Dick had something to do with looking after the vats of acid at the mill with which the pulp chips were softened in. He gave his daughter away in marriage at the church. No one missed him until they were going back to the house for refreshments. At first, they thought he may have gone home, but when they arrived he was not there. Never been seen or heard from since that day. Lewis thought he may have slipped out from the church and gone to the mill to look at the vats as he was very conscientious about his work and somehow slipped or fell into one of the vats and of course in less than an instant would've been unable to get out. Lewis said he did not think of it at the time and was expecting him back any day, but in later years when there was still no word from him there, this was the theory he had regarding his disappearance, although one will never even know for sure. So after several years, there was a divorce filed for. For Richard the, his wife had filed for divorce because he, they never heard from Richard again. Huh? He gave his

Laura: 25:30

daughter away and then

Kim: 25:31

disappeared. Right. That's what's, this is exactly what's written. Mm-hmm. In the, in the genealogy. And it says, so it does say here that my brother Lewis, so this must be Sadie cuz Lewis was Sadie's brother as well.

Laura: 25:50

Richard's brother,

Kim: 25:51

Richard would be one step back, uncle. One step back. Yep. Okay. So then, so then the question, so then, I mean, I found that kind of interesting and I'm thinking, well, he fell on a vat of acid. Well, isn't that too bad? But then I get, then I get an email from someone in New York whose whose grandfather was Richard Burgoyne and. Did

Laura: 26:16

they share the

Kim: 26:16

same birthdate? Yeah. Yeah. So this turns out that Richard had left and they probably, he hightailed it

Laura: 26:24

outta Howland.

Kim: 26:25

That's what he did. He hightailed it outta Howland after he gave his daughter away and left and made another life in New York. And that was, and, and, and. This connects back to a couple of episodes ago when we were talking about all the newspaper articles. Mm-hmm. So this Richard, his grandson or his son. Oh, cuz Rich, this Richard who, who hightailed it. Mm-hmm. And died in 1903 and left his young family. Oh, it was after 1903. Yeah.

Laura: 26:58

1903 was the year's

Kim: 26:59

daughter got married. Right. And so just a few years after that he died. Just right. I mean, after he gets there, he gets a new family. He has a child. And then he dies. And that's why that child was a vagrant. Remember in the newspaper article there was a vagrant that they picked off off the street? Yes. And they said, oh, well, he's General Johnny's grandson, a great-great grandson. Mm-hmm. We'll, we'll take care of him. So that was a few episodes ago about that article. So this is the family. So then Richard, who has a new family he, he. He dies, leaves them, of course, with no money. You know, the a a young family leaves

Laura: 27:35

two families with no money. Yep.

Kim: 27:37

Right. Okay. Go on. And then there are, the reason that I'm telling this story is because my connection, my, our cousin who was in New York, we were talking about this and it turns out that these children that were, that were abandoned, so to speak, a lot of them ended up on the orphan train. And so she, the, the researcher in New York, who was a fabulous researcher, and I didn't ask the, I didn't ask permission to use her name, so I'm not gonna but she, you know, got me hooked onto this this whole thing about orphan train. So any children who were orphaned like that would end up on an orphan train and head out west to find a family. I read that book. Yeah. It was a, so there is a book, it's written by Christina Baker Klein, and it has a main connect. So the reason I bring this up is because it's, I would never have known about the orphan train if it hadn't come. This whole circle about the Burgoyne and connecting to New York, and then that researcher who also had connected about the families out there. Who had been placed on the orphan train. So what happens is they, you know, if they're orphaned, they get shipped out west to a family to be adopted. And sometimes the adoption went well and there was, they were loved and mm-hmm. All this. And other times they were just put to work. They were just right. They were just abused. Yeah. Abused. Right. And so but the book. It says Christina Baker Klein, and it says, between 1854 and 1929, so-called orphan trains ran regularly from the cities of the East Coast to the farmlands of the Midwest, carrying thousands of abandoned children whose fates would be determined by pure luck. Would they be adopted by a kind and loving family, or would they face a childhood of adolescence, a childhood and adolescence of hard labor and servitude. So this was, this was about a young Irish immigrant, Vivian Daley was that child sent from the rail from New York City to uncertain future, but she returned east later in life and she led a quiet, peaceful existence on the coast of Maine. So this has a main connection. This has a Burgoyne connection because they told me about it, but if anybody's interested, the orphan train, the novel is, is really well worth looking into and it may be. Of maybe your family tree, because maybe there were some orphans that got shipped out. Hmm. And I don't know there was the Children's Aid Society. They were the people that were collecting these children, sending them out and thinking that they were doing good work.

Laura: 30:14

Yeah. And it was, I really the book was very, very interesting. I, I really loved reading it, but it can be a little bit difficult. They didn't go into too much detail, but you know, definitely some of these kids were not well treated where they went. Right. Right. And it was even difficult managing them along the way because they didn't have a lot of resources. Mm-hmm. And if you remember, I'll give'em the benefit of the doubt. I, I believe they didn't have the resources.

Kim: 30:40

Right. Care for them properly. We've discussed other children's aid societies. Remember you had a, you had a coworker who had a family member in England who was left orphaned. Yes. And. And ra and they had well-meaning people and this, these children in England would get shipped to Canada. Mm-hmm. Because that was a commonwealth and they would have their life here after they lost their parents. And not everybody, you know, it was all just a, a, you know, a flip of the coin. Do you get a good house or a bad house? And you just don't know. But they perhaps were well, well intended for the time. I don't know. Yeah. Thought that they were doing good. Anyway. So that was what I wanted to say today, is you never know where you're, you know what, you'll learn what piece of history is connected to you and that's why you go looking and you might get surprised. Yeah. Surpri, we get surprised every day. Yeah. Surprised more than once.

Laura: 31:37

So we wanna thank everyone for listening today, and if you wouldn't mind. Just give us a rating, review, or follow us on your favorite podcast platform. We also invite you to reach out to us by email at chasing hazels tales gmail.com. Tell us your tales and share what you've learned. Or found interesting about your family, or if you have any questions that you know, maybe we can point you in the right direction for where you can get some more information. And of course, let us know if you have shaken your family tree and had any nuts fall out. We have our share, don't we, Kim?

Kim: 32:12

I think I'm it. I wasn't gonna say that the tree yet.

Laura: 32:18

She won't

Kim: 32:19

leave the tree. We shake and we shake and we shake. And you can

Laura: 32:26

also follow us or contact us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or TikTok. And until next time, so long, goodbye.