Ep 21 - Gen.John Burgoyne & Martha Moore Ballard - Maine Descendants?

In this episode - we start to create the foundation for our relationship to the Burgoyne's in Cornwall and to General John Burgoyne himself.  Sadie worked that tree - we are trying to re-create her work.  We have a few tidbits of genealogy that will make you want to check out your tree too!  You never know what you will find!   

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/midwife-timeline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Ballard
https://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/popup_burgoyne.html#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Burgoyne

Transcript

Kim: 0:06

Hello and welcome back to Chasing Hazel's Tales, a family history podcast presented to you by two registered nurses. We're all around family historians and we're sisters. If you've got family history, we want to talk about it. I'm Kim McLaughlin.

Laura: 0:21

And I'm Laura Ireland. And this week we're gonna continue with General Johnny Burgoyne and the quest to answer the question, are we really related to. We also have another new tidbit to share with you at the end

Kim: 0:35

and, but first I wanna ask Laura if she's ever had anyone ask her if she's related to general Johnny Burgoyne? You

Laura: 0:41

know, I've thought about that question and I'm not sure that I've had anybody ask

Kim: 0:48

me. Because you haven't had that maiden name in a long time. No, no, no. I mean,

Laura: 0:54

you know, and basically when I left Enfield where the only people who knew I had that name, you know, left that all behind. You know, people didn't, people didn't know. They, you know, for all they know, you know, my just last name is Ireland. That's it. Yep.

Kim: 1:11

No Burgoyne. But I just remember in high school, You know, some of our teachers would say that, and I think they said that because of all the other Burgoynes that were in our school. There were so many of us that you know, that I think it was just a given that we were, so anyway, I just remember them asking. Yeah, that's all. And my other question is, I've heard it said two ways, but how do you say Burgoyne? I say Burgoyne,

Laura: 1:34

that's how I say it. Burgoyne

Kim: 1:36

and other people who say Burgoyne.

Laura: 1:40

Tomato,

Kim: 1:40

tomato, I guess. I don't know. I'm, I'm with you. It's like, oh, I think I've been saying it right all along. But then when I hear other people say it, I go, well, maybe not. I don't know. You tell

Laura: 1:54

them that they put the em-pha-sis on the wrong, syl-a-ble,

Kim: 2:00

my emphasis is better. Way

Laura: 2:04

better than your emphasis.

Kim: 2:09

Okay.

Laura: 2:12

Alright. And on that

Kim: 2:13

note, are we crying already? Laughing at ourselves? No, we crack ourselves up. Yeah. All right.

Laura: 2:23

So first we wanted to kind of just lay a little groundwork about who. John Burgoyne was, so his details, he was born in 1723 in Bedfordshire, England. Bedfordshire Bedfordshire. Yeah. I dunno. And his firstborn son of British Army Captain John Burgoyne and his wife Anna Maria. His education was at Westminster. And I don't know if that's a whole, if that's a, you know, secondary type school. I didn't look that far into it. But apparently he garnered the nickname gentleman Johnny, for his, his style, his desire to always be very dapper. He liked to dress nicely. Yes, and apparently he had a gambling problem as well. And he did get married. He eloped with Lady Charlotte Stanley in 1751, and they eloped because there was no blessing from her father due to his debts and conduct and all of that. So they, so daddy

Kim: 3:29

said no. So they said, let's go. That's.

Laura: 3:33

Yep. And I think they went to France. Yep. So he was in and out of the military in his life. He bought and sold his commission a few times, and usually when he sold it, he, I, I don't really know what that means, but I guess you used to buy a commission in the army? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And he would sell it so he could pay off his debts and then later he would decide that he wanted to be in the Army again and would, you know, buy another one. So, He's, he's well known for leading the failed British attempt to capture the New York area during the Revolutionary War. He had to surrender to, he surrendered to General Gates, I think it was at Saratoga, to save what remained of his troops, because the reinforcements and supplies that were requested never arrived.

Kim: 4:21

Yeah, they had a plan. Yeah. And there was, yeah. And one, and one person didn't go along with the plan and then he had no choice, maybe I think is what happened. Right. But that's not to say a lot of the other stuff wasn't going amok as well. And the Right, there

Laura: 4:35

are many different reports of Right. What led to that? So, yep. Anyway, just a general idea. Mm-hmm. So after. War. He returned home to England and many say in disgrace, you know he dabbled in politics. He wrote a couple of plays and I guess one of his real loves was the theater. It, it

Kim: 4:56

seemed like everything mentions that. Yeah. That some people would rather remember him for his theater and his writing than for his military expertise. And he was more successful

Laura: 5:07

there. There are some folks who have written. That was his true love and he should have stayed out of the army. Yeah.

Kim: 5:16

And then he spent all of his time at the theater anyway, so. Right, right. Yeah.

Laura: 5:20

Yep. So he would go on to, he, so he was married to Lady Charlotte. I don't know how many times he was married to you. Was it just,

Kim: 5:28

well, he was only, I think he was only married once to her.

Laura: 5:31

But he had a long-term

Kim: 5:32

mistress. Right. And she died. Lady Charlotte died young. Also, I think they had a daughter. He and Lady Charlotte had a daughter. Oh, okay. And they both died. Both the ladies died. So then he went back to the theater probably. And that's where he took up with where, where you're going at Susan.

Laura: 5:49

Susan Caulfield. Yes. So yeah, so the children he had with her, Field Marshall, John Fox Burgoyne, who was the father of Hugh Talbot. Burgoyne

Kim: 6:02

very, they were very well decorated. Those, they were the two military men in the family.

Laura: 6:07

Right. And I think there's a fort named after John Fox. Really, if what I read on Wikipedia is

Kim: 6:13

correct,

Laura: 6:16

it's the In Dover. It's in Dover, England.

Kim: 6:18

Really? Yeah. So I read somewhere that Hugh Talbot Burgoyne, and you see after his name it says vc. So he won the Victoria Cross for whatever. Oh. You know, he for some sort of military thing, but mm-hmm. They say that Vic, that Burgoyne Island in British Columbia or there's, it's over on the west coast. There's a Burgoyne Island. Yes. We haven't been there or Burgoyne. Anyway, it's right off the coast of British Columbia. Oh, we're going, that's, there you go. I was gonna say, we need to go on a road trip to figure out what's going on there, because that was named for him and that's all I know. It's, I haven't done a deep

Laura: 6:50

dive into that. Well, they've both had things named after them, so that's pretty good. So they had two daughters as well, Maria Sophia, and Carolina Edward. And another son, Edward William Burgoyne and general Burgoyne would die in London on August 4th, 1792. And he's buried in Westminster Abbey. And we do have photographic proof that's right of the grave. The stone in Westminster Abbey. Yes. Maybe you should put that

Kim: 7:19

somewhere, Kim. I should do that as long as Brady's okay with that. Yeah. Brady went over, my son Brady went over and. Was in Westminster and found the grave, but had to, had to ask someone specifically where it was and when he went and he asked the, there was a guy there selling stuff and the guy had to move a trashcan over and it was covering general Johnny's. Foot plate.

Laura: 7:46

Does that indicate how he's thought

Kim: 7:49

of over there? How esteemed Great Grampy was? Yeah. Oh goodness. So Brady never lets me forget. Oh, yeah. I had to have the guy move the trashcan off of his, his, his burial site. Okay. All right. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, I think he should have stuck to theater. Anyway. And another thing, you know, so that kind of sets the ground for who, who he is and, and you know, that he existed and they say we're related to him. But also in all this research you know, we, I'm following Sadie cuz Sadie is the one who in the Burgoyne online who said, yeah, we're related to him. But she put in there that there was a place called Appledore, England in Cornwall. And so I've been, and that's where our relative was born, in Appledore and I thought in, in Cornwall. So I looked and looked and looked and couldn't find Appledore Cornwall because everybody said it was in Devon. And true there is an Appledore in Devon which is just the county north of Cornwall. But he didn't come from there. So I searched for years and I mean, you know me, I've been doing this for years and I would just look and look and look. And then I came across this little known database that documents all the historical manor houses in England. And, you know, because they have a big historical emphasis em-pha-sis on, on historical buildings, because then if they're historical, you're not allowed to change them. They, mm-hmm. They're grade one, grade two, that kind of thing. And so they did this was in that database. And the boom there was, there was an Appledore manor very nearby where the Burgoyne lived in Warbstow. And so it was an extinct manor, and unfortunately it was recorded, but there was no remaining documents to describe its history. Oh, but there was, and so Sadie was right. There's Appledore, and it's, not unthinkable to think or, or unimaginable to think that they were born there. They, they could have been working on that manor, or that could have been their boss. They could have, they could have owned some land nearby there, but it was, there was an Appledore, it was a manor and it's still there. And

Laura: 9:56

this, but it's, go ahead. This area is in southwest England, right? Yes.

Kim: 10:01

It's in Cornwall. Yeah. Yeah, and it's, it's right nearby where Andrew and I went to Warbstow. So it's, I

Laura: 10:08

think that most people who are listening, unless they know you, like I do, I like, I would never have known where Cornwall was, so

Kim: 10:14

I had to look it up on map. Okay. So what do you mean you don't know where Cornwall is? And Cornwall is is its own entity kind of like Wales is, Wales has its own culture, like Yeah, the Cornish are very specific about their own culture and their own heritage Their heritage and culture is very distinctively different from England. Okay. Although, you know, and they have their own flag just like Wales. So it's, it is different. And Cornwall is lovely. It's beautiful. And right in the middle of it is an old historical, ancient manner called Appledore so, and I, and I say like, I start thinking about this and all the years that I've researched it and all these things pop up and it's like, I wanna stop right now what we're doing and go back and research some more because there's more there. I just don't always have time to, to do it. So if there's anybody out. Who wants to show me a little love and show me, you know, all these ancient manors and find proof that that's, that was the actual place they were born. I would love it. Yeah.

Laura: 11:15

I'm, I'm envisioning a live podcast from Cornwall.

Kim: 11:18

Yeah. Right out in the middle of the field because you have to actually go through one person's field to get to this manor. Andy and I looked at it Oh, looking at that up there, and it's. They have different laws when it comes to fields and trespass and things like that. So I, and I don't know what they are, so I didn't feel comfortable crossing the field and whatever that was that Fair enough. Yeah. But it, it was great. So that's, I wanted, you know, if anybody's saying Appledore not in Cornwall, there is an Appledore manor. That's what I'll say. Okay. Okay.

Laura: 11:51

All right. So we're going to talk about what we want to connect. So the Burgoynes we know here in the US and Canada to the Burgoynes in England sounds like a good time, doesn't it, Kim? Yes.

Kim: 12:07

Sounds like 35 years worth of work. Yeah,

Laura: 12:11

so there are Burgoyne in Western Canada, Maine, Delaware, new Brunswick, prince Edward Island, the Netherlands, Florida, Massachusetts, Texas, and more. And. They all funnel into the Prince Edward Island Burgoyne. So you mean they're all descended

Kim: 12:30

from this? This Edward Burgoyne who was born in

Laura: 12:35

Appledore. Wow. Very prolific.

Kim: 12:37

Very much so. There was even one that came to North America and then went back to England. So they didn't like it? No. So I know people. Over there. So I wanna say, but I forget what town

Laura: 12:51

So all these Burgoyne that we're talking about Yes. Have come, I mean, originally from Cornwall, England. Yep. And we've all descended from Edward Burgoyne, who was born 10 November, 1830 in Appledore, Cornwall. That's what Sadie reported, so it must be so

Kim: 13:11

right, of course.

Laura: 13:13

And we've seen evidence of it. Edward did die on two June, 1922 in North Grandville, prince Edward Island, Canada. So he was old.

Kim: 13:25

Yes. 90. He listened to his nineties. Yes. 92. Yes. And he had, from what I suspect, I think he does. I'm not sure about how many children total he had, but I know of 13.

Laura: 13:37

13 with the wife Susan. Right. And he had at least two wives that we know

Kim: 13:42

of. Right. And I have one letter from a lady that tells me she thinks he had three wives, but she can't remember. Anyway. Okay. That was a long time ago. Yeah. So anyway. But the, you know, one of the questions are, you know, our name's Burgoyne, his name's Burgoyne and did General Johnny. Even have any male descendants to continue the Burgoyne going line. And the the truth is, yes, he did. So according to his will, he had two sons. And it took me a long time to find the second one because, so his first son is John Fox. He was very well known, highly decorated military man, and some like to connect us with John Fox, but his only son was Hugh t. Burgoyne who was a winner of the Victoria Cross. He died at sea. He left no male heirs. He only had daughters. Aw. So that John Fox line died out. At that point, there were no more males. Mm-hmm. So and Sadie was correct in saying that we must connect to the next line, to the next male. So, you know, general Johnny had two sons and we connect to the second one according to Sadie, Edward, William Burgoyne. Whose birth is recorded. And I know this because I sent for the birth certificate for him from St. Margaret's of Westminster. So, and they sent me his copy of his birth certificate. Oh. It's recorded as Edward William Burgoyne Caulfield, that's his name that's written on the, so you know, it's Burgoyne and you know, it's her Susanna. Oh. I think, put that on there. I don't know. So he was born the 19th of October in 1786. And it says, you know, Edward William Burgoyne Caulfield born 19 October, 1786 of John by Susanna. So there you have it. That line up. Have the official Yeah, I have the official copy. And it's certified and all that. And that is the path that Sadie had reported that we descend from. So according to all the sources I've read, all of the chil general's, children, they all go to live with Lord Derby. Once he. Lord Derby was related to his first wife, lady, Charlotte Stanley. The Stanleys held the Lordship in Lancashire. The the Derby line. The Derby I guess, I don't know what you wanna call it, the Derby Lordship. I don't, I am so, I so don't get some of these levels of hierarchy. I don't, I don't either understand them. All I know is that it. Lord Stanley. I mean, Lord Derby, who took in his four children took in general Johnny's four children because he remained cordial with, you know, they were friends and they remained cordial over the years. My question is, why didn't, Susanna Caulfield couldn't raise.

Laura: 16:30

I don't, maybe she didn't have the ability financially or for whatever

Kim: 16:34

reason, probably wanted them

Laura: 16:36

in a more, I mean, she was a mistress, not a wife,

Kim: 16:38

so That's right. And I've even looked for marriage certificates and found nothing for, so for Caulfield. Anyway, so they all go to live with Lord Derby, his name was Edward Stanley. And and that was in Lancashire, which is quite a distance away from London. So that's in. West of England. Okay. And it's just different. So from there, so they'll, so if you chase the children there, you know, they're there and that second son went there, all four of'em went. Mm-hmm. And then that's where the, that's where it gets cloudy. Really cloudy, foggy. Wow. All right. Thick as pea soup.

Laura: 17:19

Yep. Well, so at least we've got our, we think we've got that connection going there. Right. So we know it goes to the Cornwall connection and then to Lancashire. Right? So maybe next week we can look at connecting the dots where, wherever the dots may lead. That's

Kim: 17:39

right, we will. So I wanted to update everybody also. Last week's tidbit we did a little bit number one fan, David and his grandfather, Byron Lloyd. He, along with others, sued the town of Madison, Maine for keeping a dump fire going during dry weather, which caused a large fire. So we did, I did happen to find another article discussing the scope of the fire, but I don't have the outcome of the lawsuit, so I think David May be hot on that trail. Maybe going to the Kennebec County. I don't know if it's in Kennebec County, go to the County Superior Court or whatever to see whatever happened with that lawsuit cuz I couldn't find it in the paper, which is kind of unusual. But anyway, what happened was David really didn't even know about that lawsuit. Neither did his mother. So it was something very interesting to add to their family history. But you know, if I didn't have a full-time job, maybe I'd have a little extra to go right for that. But I, I didn't have time, but he, but it was very interesting for him to know. But for today's tidbit, this one really was one of my favorite finds. So what happens if you're a genealogists like me? Someone's last name might catch your attention. I don't know if that happens to you. Does it you Laura? Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. They're very inter You say, where'd that name come from? Is that English? Is that French? Is that, what is it? Mm-hmm. But. That's what happened. I found this guy's last name and it was one of my husband's co coworkers and friends. And I just happened to catch the last name and I just thought, well, where'd that come from? And actually, he had quite a bit done on his family tree. It's just, I was kind of just trying to figure out, actually what I wanted to know was the origin of his last name. Where'd it come from? Cause I couldn't, I, I just didn't know. And what I found out was and it may seem distant, For him, but I found it very, very interesting and very important in the lives of all Mainers. And so this, I found out that his four times great-grand aunt was named Martha Moore. So she was married into his family and she was born in Oxford, Massachusetts in 1735. And little is known sometimes about women in the early colonial years, and so I found this really quite interesting. That is

Laura: 19:44

true. Women are often just not part of the story

Kim: 19:48

that was kept. Right. They're not, they're right. That's exactly right. But that can change if they keep a diary. Don't we love diaries, Laura? Yes. Yes. We learned. Learned some stuff. Yeah, we learned some stuff. And historically very significant as it turns out. So this woman kept a d. So, again, her name was Martha Moore. She married Efram Ballard, and we're gonna put a link in the show notes so you can go and read all about her. But the story is pretty good,

Laura: 20:16

right from Wikipedia. So she's famous enough to be in Wikipedia, so that's pretty cool.

Kim: 20:22

I don't think I have a Wikipedia page yet. Nope, me either.

Laura: 20:24

So Martha Moore, born in Oxford, province of Massachusetts on February 9th, 1735 to the family of Elijah Moore. And Dorothy Learned Moore. You just don't hear names like Efram and Elijah really anymore? No. Like those. All right. So there's little known about her childhood, her education, or life before she began keeping her diary at the age of 50. But it is known that her family had medical links, and those links were her Uncle Aja Moore and brother-in-law. Me too. Yeah. I just took a stab at that one. We'll see. And her brother-in-law, Steven Barton, who were both physicians. And so in addition then Barton named me, sound familiar, like anyone who's been through nursing school. Right. Clara Barton, founder of the American Red Cross. And she's the granddaughter of Ballard's sister. Right. All right. So Martha married f from Ballard, a land surveyor in 1754. They had nine children between 1756 and 1779. Quick, 23 years. Oh gosh. All right. But lost three of them to diptheria. So three out of the nine were lost to diptheria between June 17th and July 5th, 1769. That's sad. And then, yeah, very sad. And then Ballard moved to the Kennebec Valley in Maine in 17 77, 2 years after her husband had moved there for surveying. I'm sure there's a lot of that going on.

Kim: 21:54

Yeah. They were just still just a province of mass of Massachusetts then.

Laura: 21:58

Right. And that's where Ballard would earn some income as a midwife until her old age. So from when she was 50 until her death in 1812, Martha kept a diary that recorded her work and domestic life in Hallowell on the Kennebec River District of Maine. We know Hallowell, we love Hallowell. That's right. So the log of daily events written with a quill pen and homemade, Inc. Records, numerous babies delivered and illnesses treated as she traveled by horse or canoe around the Massachusetts frontier in what is today the state of Maine. So for 27 years, she wrote in the daily or diary daily, often by candlelight when her family had gone to bed.

Kim: 22:38

And I just, for me, I mean, I'm a, I'm older than 50 and that's the last thing I wanna do when I, at late at night, is sitting. In a diary. They showed a picture of her diary online and it's huge. It's, it's really quite big. So I, I, I just thought it was really cool that she had this great big, and, and I can't imagine that she didn't have a kid or two come along, or grandchildren. I just imagine the boisterousness and she's got this big important book that she's writing in. Hmm. And that it didn't get damaged anyway. Yeah, that's what, that's what I imagined. Right. Well, it

Laura: 23:13

says that the book, the diary was over 1400 pages.

Kim: 23:16

Right. So that's a lot. It's like a Stephen King novel. That's right.

Laura: 23:22

And the entries start with the weather because she is a good Maine girl. Yeah. And the time. And many of her records are short and choppy, but her later entries are longer and detailed. And her writing illustrates struggles and tragedies within her own family and local crimes and scandals. And one includes the comment that children in New England are allowed to choose their romantic interest if they were in the same economic class. Rare for the time.

Kim: 23:49

Eads, what make your own choices?

Laura: 23:52

Oh, how dare you. Many of the people mention in the diary do not appear on official records such as census reports or deeds and probate. So the diary helps to provide insight into the lives of the ordinary people who might otherwise have remained invisible. And because of the scale of the diary, scholars have been able to use digital tools to mine it for information. So And the studies out of that diary revealed, for instance, that her delivery spiked significantly between February and April. And which means the neighbors are more likely to be active between May

Kim: 24:27

and July. So, so you know, colonial times, there was a mating season,

Laura: 24:36

which I would've thought was the winter time, cuz that's the, that's how the old story goes, you know, nine months after a snowstorm.

Kim: 24:43

It's in my, but in. In my weird sense of timing, I was thinking, you know, these people used to only have a bath like once a year or once a month or once or whatever. And I'm thinking maybe springtime when they all came out and, you know, jumped in the river, got cleaned up and got gussied up and got ready to go out for you know, Church or parties, same thing. Yep. Yep.

Laura: 25:06

And everyone's like, Hey, you don't look too bad. Cleaned up

Kim: 25:10

in the dark. Winter inside. It's just not the same. But anyway, she also they said that, you know, she and her family experienced difficult times and her husband was in prison for debt and her son was indicted for fraud. So she had, you know, she didn't have a perfect life. She wasn't right. You know, but she worked hard. She had to have to, to do all this. And what I wanted to mention, you know, because I just feel like, you know, she was probably. Worthy of a lot of, a lot of accolades, but her obituary was published on June 9th, 1812 in the American Advocate, and this is what it said. This is all it said, died in Augusta, Mrs. Martha consort of Mr. Efram ballad aged 77 years. That's all it said. Wow. I mean, she was just a consort. She was just Martha, the consort of this man. So that's just how things were at that time. But I was sad about that. Yeah.

Laura: 26:09

Yep, for sure. And so for a lot of years her diary was not considered to be of any scholarly interest since it was generally dismissed as repetitive and ordinary. But there was one historian, Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, who saw potential in the diary, realizing how rare her firsthand account was after having researched a previous book on women in early New England. So after eight years of research, Ulrich produced a midwife's Tale, the Life of Martha Ballard, based on her diary from 1785 to 1812. And each chapter in the book represents one aspect of the life of a woman in the late 18th century. And the overriding theme is the nature of women's work in the context and c. And Ulrich said that when I was five finally able to connect Martha's work to her world, I could begin to create stories.

Kim: 27:02

So, So the reason that I think I read the reason that this, this person Ms. Ulrich had the diary to begin with or was able to read it, her name was Laurel Thatcher Ulrich. I think once Martha died, the, the diary was handed down from family to family to family, and finally someone just gave it to the main state library, I believe, and where it was just, you know, it's just, Until, mm-hmm. This person this historian found it I believe that's how it goes. Somehow it got into this historian's hands, and that's how she was able to then go and recreate, you know, a, a book and bring those characters back to life,

Laura: 27:42

all based on a, on a woman from Maine. It's pretty Right.

Kim: 27:45

Pretty cool. In, in the Kennebec. I mean, it's beautiful up there. And mm-hmm. But it had to be really tough. I mean, she went by horse and canoe, so there's a baby being born up the up the river. So she hops in the canoe and off she goes, paddle faster, paddles faster. That's and I, I thought I would just read the, the positive, the positive things for this book. Th. This book in 1991 won the Pulitzer Prize, the Bancroft Prize, the John h Dunning Prize, the Joan Kelly Memorial Prize in Women's History. The Berkshire Conference of Women's Historians Book Prize, the Society for Historians of the Early Republic Book Prize and the William Henry Welch Medal of the American Association for the History of Medicine and the New England Historical Association. So I know that was a lot. Wow. It's a lot of awards. It's a lot of awards. And who to thunk it? It was just sitting in the library. Nobody thought it was anything except for some lady's diary, but what, what that historian was able to pull out of it was, was substantial.

Laura: 28:50

Right. So in 1997, the p b s series, the American Experience, aired a midwife's tale. So it was a documentary film based on the book and the author what was her name? Laurel, Ms. Ulrich. Yep. Served as a consultant, script collaborator and narrator for the film. And I

Kim: 29:09

haven't watched it, have

Laura: 29:09

you? No, but I

Kim: 29:10

think I'm going to. Well, and what's interesting. You know, I gave this information to my husband's friend, and that's what he did. He went and watched, he, I think he read, either read the book or watched the movie, one or the other. I think he read the book. Okay. But, you know, it, it takes sometimes in family history, like we wouldn't know this. It just gives you an opportunity to learn li a little bit more, especially about the Right, the great state of Maine. And what was going on at that time.

Laura: 29:35

Oh, and it looks like the it was filmed in King's Landing. In New Brunswick, which I've been there on a school trip before, right? And it was done to capture Maine's three seasons, black flies, snow and mud.

Kim: 29:49

They're not wrong. They're not wrong. So we just know our cousins, our cousins across the border in f Fredericton have the same seasons we do. Right? Yeah. All right. Anyway, so we're gonna. We're gonna put the links in our show notes for those for things regarding General John and for things regarding Martha Ballard. And I, you know, if you get an opportunity watch, I mean, these things are highly acclaimed. So hopefully you'll be able to find something that interests you. And so if you, if you. Please rate, review, and follow us on your favorite podcast platform. We also invite you to reach out to us by email at chasinghazelstales@gmail.com. Tell us your tales and share what you have learned about or found interesting about your family, and let us know if you've shaken that tree and a few nuts fell out. I'm not the knot, are you sure? Well, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not gonna ask anyway.

Laura: 30:50

and you can also follow us or contact us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or TikTok. So until next time, so long,

Kim: 30:58

so long. Goodbye.