Ep 15 - Monkey Tales & Cousins by the dozens

SPECIAL GUESTS:  Lisa Goodwin of Maine, Maria Nicolai of Argentina and Michela Zampetta of Italy.  We wrap up our Nicolai story with a conversation across 3 continents today, wish it could include the 4th.   Two generations later, the family still gathers and learns about their common history is the most loving way.  Tune in for the laughs and the love.  Also - there is a party brewing.....

Transcript

Kim: 0:04

Hello everyone and welcome back to Chasing Hazel's Tales, a family history podcast. Hazel was our grandmother, and if you haven't heard Hazel's story, I invite you to check her out in our entire episode list. We love to discuss our ancestors, and today we're gonna do the same thing. I'm Kim McLaughlin.

Laura: 0:24

And I'm Laura Ireland, and this is gonna be a fun episode. We've been talking about how much it means to find or reunite with our families, and the great feeling of finding that home, that homey feeling, or the connection when you weren't even looking for it. So today we have our special guest correspondent, Lisa Goodwin is

Lisa: 0:44

back. Hi, I'm so excited to be here.

Laura: 0:48

we're we're happy to have you. Yeah, And a few others. Uh, so to recap, we are celebrating the love story of Salvador and Ruth. Nikolai Salvador was one of six siblings and immigrated to the United States in 1912. His mother and father were Domenico Nicolai and Lucrezia Scorsino. He had two sisters, Maria and Filomena, three brothers, Guiseppe Cesare and Consalvo. They were all born in Montefiascone but to note following the descendants of Domenico Nicolai and Lucretia, they have family on four continents. North America, south America, Europe, and Australia. So that's a lot to keep up with. And we have covered Salvatore and Consalvo, Italy. But there were also descendants of Filomina that went to Australia, and so that branch is gonna need a little more research and stay tuned for that.

Kim: 1:52

Okay. And we want to introduce you to the cousins that descend from two of Salvatore's brothers also. Um, we wanna make a note that each time we've gathered with family, these two have served as our interpreters and we thank them very, very much because we couldn't have. all the fun that we did if we hadn't had interpreters. So we love them dearly. So first we have Maria Nicolai, and she descends from Consalvo, who immigrated to Argentina. Say, hello, Maria Hello everyone. She's our Argentinian. And second is Michela. And she descends from Cesare. Nicolai and that family stayed in Montefiascone. Hi everyone. Very good to hear from both of you. so we'll put it over to Lisa to start. Okay.

Lisa: 2:47

So I have some questions for Maria. First, um, can you tell us a little bit about Consalvo?

Maria: 2:56

Well, I can tell you, uh, that he was my grandfather. Yeah, my, but the thing is he died before I was born. So I, I did not meet him. Really. I, I know about him because, um, my, my father talked to me about him and, well, the research also that we, I, I think all the Nicolai family

Kim: 3:27

do this. Like look for,

Maria: 3:30

yeah. Yep. Uh, our ancestors, where he came from and well, all that, you know, and, well, my sister Sylvia told me a lot of things about him. My father, my mother

Michela: 3:48

also. And they

Maria: 3:49

all, they always told me that, two years, after he died, I came

Lisa: 4:01

and if, if all of you remember that history. Consalvo is the brother of Salvatore

Maria: 4:07

yeah. Yeah. That he came here to Argentina when he was 16. That there was, cousin, waiting for him.

Kim: 4:17

he was.

Maria: 4:18

Um, wait, I, I can't remember now.

Kim: 4:22

His name. Was it Jose? No. Okay.

Lisa: 4:27

He

Maria: 4:27

was with, with b with long B, but I, uh, wait a minute. Can I ask my

Kim: 4:34

mother? Sure. yes.

Maria: 4:41

B

Kim: 4:42

Okay. Burla. Burla, okay.

Lisa: 4:45

Yeah,

Maria: 4:45

I changed, I changed the, the language and I remember suddenly. Yeah, because we call him Burla, I, yeah. I could meet. So I remember Bula very well. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. My grandfather was like, like him because they were almost the same age. Mm-hmm.

Lisa: 5:15

So, um, what was it like to meet your Italian relatives for the first time?

Maria: 5:21

Well, I, I have to be honest. Um, I went to England first to study and my father knew I was going to be very close to them, and he told me, you have to meet our Italian family. And I said, well, I don't know. I, I don't know how to speak Italian. Uh, I don't know them. You are the one who speaks with them always. And, uh, he like pushed. At the beginning, you know, and when I was there I felt like, I don't know, like in my house, you know, at home. Really? Mm-hmm. I think. And it was, uh, amazing.

Michela: 6:10

Really.

Maria: 6:13

My mother is All the rest

Lisa: 6:26

So really you had kind of the same feeling we had of that, that feeling of being home because that's the way it I had described it. Yeah. Yeah. So how old were you when you learned about your relatives in the United States?

Kim: 6:42

Oh,

Maria: 6:44

let me think. I think I was 11 or 12, more or less. I started writing letters with

Michela: 6:54

Silvia, Silvia Saunders,

Maria: 6:58

and yeah, I was very young because I, I remember my teacher of English, uh, helped me with, uh, the letters.

Lisa: 7:11

Oh, that's really cool. Yeah. So did you reach out to Sylvia or did, did she contact you first?

Maria: 7:19

She contact us, um, but not me. I, I think I didn't exist when she got in touch and she started writing letters with my, my, my sister Sylvia, my sister Sylvia. Mm-hmm. you know? And one day my grandfather received a letter and the letter said, Sylvia Nikolai. So he went to my sister and tell, tell her, um, Did you write a letter to us, And she said, no, it's not me. And apart from that, it was from the usa. So they opened the letter and they discovered all the, the story on the other, the, on the other country, you know, So that's, that's neat. That, yeah. Yeah. She was the one who contact us. I think she, she. Like all the, the, the lines, all the, the, the change, yeah. To, to put all together again. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She

Lisa: 8:38

was the one, she really was the impetus that that connected everybody together. It was her. Yeah.

Maria: 8:44

Yeah. Exactly. So

Lisa: 8:47

those of us in the United States, we have a. Strong desire to learn more about our family in Italy and in Argentina. So do you have that same type of desire to meet these relatives that you didn't know?

Maria: 9:02

Yeah. Yeah. As, as you know, I, I went to the US the first time to work and of course that was like, uh, the excuse let's say. Mm-hmm. because yeah, it was like the, the first thing was to go out from Argentina for work that honestly, I wanted to know everyone there and, and how you growed up and everything. Yeah. And I don't remember if it. Before or after? No, it was after going to Italy actually. And yeah, I wanted to know about everyone, um, also Filomena's family that we, I, I couldn't get any information about her and that the family living in Australia, so. It was difficult from, from that side. But yeah, I wanted to know everyone. and the first one we, we met there in, in the us and the second time I realized who I met. You know, I was so young, I, I couldn't realize who, who was. You know what I mean?

Kim: 10:35

I understand. Yes.

Lisa: 10:39

It's a lot. I, I remember coming to Aunt Sibs and, and meeting you. I brought my mother down. That was a really exciting day when we got to meet you. Yeah. Now we, well, three hours to get there and then three hour hours home that day. But it was all well worth it. Absolutely. Yeah.

Maria: 10:58

Yeah. I have pictures from that day. Yep.

Lisa: 11:01

So, That was, that was an incredible time. Yeah, it really was. Okay, so now we're gonna go on to McKayla, put her in the hot seat for a little while,

Kim: 11:14

So, first, we wonder if we say Montefieascone right, can you tell us how to say it correctly? Montefiascone. We did pretty good. We did right.

Maria: 11:27

Um, I can do it. I can do it.

Lisa: 11:31

good.

Laura: 11:32

They sound so much better than us,

Kim: 11:34

Kim. Yeah, that's right. I'm pretty loud when I do it. so first, talking with Michela, so you are descended from Cesare. Who would be your great grandfather? who was the brother of Salvador, and he died of course, before you were born. But do you know any stories about Cesare? Do

Maria: 11:54

you, sorry,

Michela: 11:55

my mom talked about him a lot. She had a, he was like, really sweet man. Mm-hmm. And it was the opposite of my great grandmother that I met she was like serious and she was really straight and on the opposite way was like really funny and always like doing troubles, basically and uh, he was in, so he used to play with my mom and with. Like all the time. And like they used to play, she always tell me that, that they used to play hairdresser, so they used to make him doing the, the customer. So they used to wash his hair, like cut him, cut. All the time. My grandmother was like upset He was just playing with the kids basically. Yeah. And then he used to wear these like flat hat, I dunno what to call, uh, in English. And then he used to be hid them with the hat when wherever they went we're doing like travels or like too much noise and

Kim: 13:05

stuff. So yeah,

Lisa: 13:08

it's better than a belt.

Kim: 13:13

Um, go ahead. He was really sweet. Yep. What, do you recall any stories or hearing any of the Italians talk about when Ruth, Sylvia and Dee Dee came to visit in the 1970s? Was that,

Michela: 13:30

so, yeah, my mom was really young at the time, so she doesn't remember much, but what she remember is like my grandmother telling her stories, so they were really happy. Of course. Finally meet them and to see them. And they were also curious to see like how they looked like and right how they lived and wherever. But the thing is was that back at the time, basically no one could speak English in Italy. So we only had this one cousin that was their translator all the time, but it was working so it couldn't be with them most of the time. And so like one of the story that my mom always tell me, and it's really funny, I think so they couldn't speak. So basically they talk with their hands, you know, with gestures and these kind of things. And one day they were cooking lasagna or something like that. And so my grandmother, they wanted to give them apron, but they didn't have enough for everyone. And so they were talking in Italian or like in slang. And they were saying like, uh, that it means to whom? Yes. And to whom? No, because they didn't have enough. And the Americans, they understood like monkeys, so they look like monkeys, like they were laughing and laughing. At some point they stopped and they were serious all the time. From that point, so in the evening when, when the cousin that who speak English arrived, they tried to explain the situation and they said like, we don't know what we did, but probably something wrong. Because they were pretty serious from that point, And then like, you know, he was talking to Ruth and Sylvia understood what happened and then they. Laughing again.

Kim: 15:27

It's all in the translation. Oh, do you know if any of your relatives, knew what had happened to Salvatore? Did anybody know if he was alive or if.

Michela: 15:45

Uh, so I asked my mom, she doesn't remember because of course it was like really long time ago. The only thing that she could tell me that like when he left, uh, you know, uh, communication was really hard between Italy and America or like outside Italy. So at the beginning I just thought it was. Good and safe and just he didn't have any way, you know, to talk to them. And just after a while they start to worry that something might happen to, to him, and I think that's one of the reason why he also Consalvo left for America. Right. All the other way. Yeah.

Maria: 16:23

Mm-hmm.

Kim: 16:24

Um, and so do you, do you know why Salvatore and Consalvo left?

Michela: 16:31

So back then, like usually was quite a poor country. So many Italians used to live, you know, to America to, you know, find fortune to find a good job because in Italy, like we. We mainly work lands and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. So yeah, that was the main reason. Then the, the war was coming, so I think it was like both of them together, but mainly, you know, to find job.

Kim: 16:58

Right. I, I can understand that. Um, so. from, you live in Italy where all the Nicolais are. Mm-hmm. And so was it, it seemed, I don't, you know, you, you had already met the Americans once and when we came the next time, how did everybody feel about the, the Americans and, um, what was, what were their thoughts about. I don't know

Michela: 17:23

how, how excited to, to meet you. And we were really happy as when Maria, Martha, Martha came. We were just happy to meet you finally. Mm-hmm. And you know, I think it's pretty clear that Italians like really want to feel everyone at home and like we. A lot of short food So like Mom, mom and my auntie, they were like, just worried that we didn't give you enough food or or like this kinda thing.

Kim: 17:55

that's not possible. We were very well treated. We, they took care

Lisa: 17:59

of us. Yeah, we, we may have thought that we drank too much wine.

Kim: 18:04

Should we stop drinking wine? I don't know.

Michela: 18:10

that for us it was okay. We used to drink like that when we gather all together, it's not much for us.

Kim: 18:17

and, and you know, your wine is very good. I mean, so we really enjoyed it. Yeah. and one thing, That I noticed that I kind of felt funny about was Um, you know, we don't stay up as late and Maria knows because she's been to the United States, we don't stay up as late. Um, you, uh, Argentina. Argentina, and in Italy they have supper that starts at eight or nine or 10 o'clock. And for us, we're in bed by nine o'clock So I felt like. Like I was missing out I wasn't doing it right. so I, I just always thought, so there's, there's a thing in the United States that we call Party Poopers, which means just that we don't like to, we don't like to have parties and we don't like to stay up late. And I didn't wanna be a party pooper, I wanted to do, but my body was on a different schedule and I couldn't quite figure it out. But, by the time, Into the week, I said, oh, this is great. We stay up till midnight every night and have a good time. we, we really enjoyed it. I didn't wanna be a party pooper. So

Lisa: 19:24

Yeah. For, for the record though, even though the schedule was different, I loved every minute of it and it didn't take long for me to get used to it. yeah, although I still was waking up at five o'clock in the morning, so I wasn't getting much sleep, but that was okay. and maybe the time difference helped me to acclimate myself to that because you guys are ahead of us at with time. So I thought it was a regular time. I guess

Kim: 19:47

it worked out okay.

Michela: 19:50

Yeah, I'm grateful,

Lisa: 19:52

but I tell you, it was, it was an amazing time, Mikayla, and you are so helpful to us. Um, you know, the translation I know you had was spinning with, you know, trying, am I speaking English or Italian? What does this mean? You know, I can't even imagine what you did. It was incredible. And we are so grateful for all of that and for everything, the hospitality that was shown to us, it was, we did feel like family. And for me it was an immediate. It really was. So if that was your aim, you guys hit it right on the bullseye.

Michela: 20:24

I can assure everyone.

Lisa: 20:28

So I'd like to know, are you guys coming to the United States because we'd like you guys to come here.

Michela: 20:33

Yeah, I was talking to Andrew that me and Marco, we are thinking to come and now that we are thinking wow. Obsessed with it. So I think we're coming, but Oh, yay.

Maria: 20:44

I'm so excited.

Kim: 20:47

great.

Michela: 20:48

Yeah. Yeah. I'll let you know, but like it's 99% sure that we're coming.

Lisa: 20:53

Oh, that is so exciting. That's the news. It really is. And it kind of segues into what I have to say next.

Kim: 21:00

Um, Maria, do you think you'll come, or, or, or not? You're not just, you don't know. Are you talking to me? Yeah. Maria? Um,

Maria: 21:12

I don't know. I can't tell you. It's, it's really so, but I don't, yeah, it's, yeah, it's, apart from that, we are in the middle of a movement, you know? Yep. So it's difficult. I don't know if we could make it mm-hmm. but. I will try. Yeah. Obviously I'll do my best.

Lisa: 21:35

So this year marks the hundredth anniversary of the marriage of Salvador and Ruth, and we are celebrating in August and bringing together the grandchildren. Great And great, great And great, great, great grandchildren, Salvador and Ruth. Just my mother's family has 74 descendants, so there'll be quite a few people at this. This

Kim: 21:58

reunion.

Lisa: 22:01

get ready Michela. So while I'm planning this event, I thought, wouldn't you be awesome to have some relatives from Italy and Argentina join us? To me, that would complete our circle. It would be wonderful to have as many family members attend as possible from all over the world. Even though it's in my backyard and I've only got limited space, I want So how much joy would that bring? The ancestors, we think about it. I'm sure the decibel level of our voices and laughter would reach the heavens for sure.

Kim: 22:38

Yeah. Can you mention that? So did you guys have anything else, um, that you wanted to add to any of this or. Maria and uh, Michela

Michela: 22:52

no, the only thing I like, oh, you were saying at the beginning that you are gonna investigate also the Australian side of the family, so like if you find out something I would be curious to know as

Kim: 23:03

well, right? Mm-hmm. so we do have one connection there, but I don't know how much Oh, really. Information they have. Right. And I won't say their name on air, but just because I don't know that they want me to, but I'll, I'll text. But, um, I do know someone over there and I do have some of the branches filled out, but there are quite a few branches there as well. I mean, more than, more than, um, I knew. So yeah, I'll send it to you. Okay. Okay, great. We'll invite them.

Maria: 23:34

Yeah. Why not

Laura: 23:40

All right. So it's been a real pleasure for me learning about the Nicolai family history as we've moved through the story. I couldn't help but keep thinking, uh, that it's, it reminds me. Of the Butterfly effect, sort of the human example of the Butterfly effect. The young Nikolai men moved far away from their homes. They worked, they married, they had their families, and those decisions changed the family history and created the wonderful families that we know today. And all those families are reconnecting and sharing their stories and, um, I think that all or most of us as American families, we have a story that involves someone taking a leap of faith or a desperate journey or something in between in their history because we all have ancestors who lived in different lands. So I'd like to encourage all of our listeners to get to know your family story and whether the lore aligns with the actual history or not. It's still the reason we're all here today, and it's always worth investigating. Okay. So thanks to everyone for listening to this great story. We hope you enjoyed it. Please feel free to contact us at chasing Hazel's tales@gmail.com. We'd love to hear your stories or comments about ours. Please rate and review our podcast through whatever platform you use to listen. It is appreci.

Kim: 25:04

for next time we'll be taking a short break and, we won't be back until March 1st. If you get an opportunity to chat with your elders, write it down, share it with your family. It is the best and you never know what you will learn. So I'm not sure exactly which goodbye to say today. chow or, what would you say Maria? Too. Okay. So yeah,

Maria: 25:29

no Italiano. Okay.