Ep 11 - Endeavor to Persevere

We have news after visiting one of Hazel's family friend - had a great visit.  We continue with the Nicolai family story - and learn how the children "endeavor to persevere".  

Transcript

Kim: 0:03

Welcome back to Chasing Hazel's Tales, a family history podcast. If you haven't heard her story, I invite you to Go back and check out our entire episode list. There's never a dull moment, but today I'm once again having tea because here in Maine it's storming again, same as last week. And we're all hoping that the power holds. And so we'll blame everything that happens in this podcast on the power company But here at my house, we sometimes blame things on the squirrels because they eat my cable wires. We currently have about. I don't know, maybe six to eight inches of snow out there and it's not stopping. So we're gonna catch you up on some Hazel news and then pick up the Nicolai family and continue on with their amazing story. I'm Kim McLaughlin. And I'm Laura Ireland. and I did wanna butt in just for a second, and j say, just for the record, I try to keep these stories as kind of private as possible. So I don't like to mention names of the living unless they want in, unless they want us to, and or give me permission. So sometimes you might think that I, I say they had two daughters or whatever, you know, that kind of thing. I just don't go into people who have no interest in this kind of thing. So, and I, and for privacy, they're living and I just don't. Go on about it, just so you know.

Laura: 1:19

Right. So the stories we've told basically are of the people who have passed. Right. And

Kim: 1:23

their stories. Stories. You wanna talk about it? Let me know.

Laura: 1:27

give us a little

Kim: 1:28

jingle. Yep.

Laura: 1:29

But we're very fortunate to have some people that are willing to share information about Hazel with us and. This past week, like we told you in our last episode, we ended up meeting up with Maxine Perry who was a neighbor to our family back in the day. And her daughters, Cathy and Paula and two of her nieces, Paula and Carlene also joined us. And the nieces are daughters to Mona, who we mentioned in the first. Few episodes. She's the one who knew. one of the people who knew our grandmother and our grandmother, Hazel made her a dress and all that kind of thing. So but anyway, this meeting was with Maxine to, to get her take on what life was like and what she knew about Hazel in our family back in the day because she was an eyewitness. So, and she's still very sharp and she recalled many things about her friendship with our Aunt Georgia, Burgoyne Hallett, and her memories of Hazel so she used to, she said she went to their house a lot on the weekends and she remembers it just being a happy household that she and Georgia would help to take care of the younger children, pat and Roscoe, and that she remembered Hazel loving to have kids over to the house. And, but she also remembered, you know, the times when Hazel was sick. When she would come home from treatments and just sort of be laying on the couch in the kitchen and that's when she and Georgie would cook and bake and Right. Take care of

Kim: 3:08

the smaller ones. Right. And they had a good time doing it. They were good. They were good buddies.

Laura: 3:12

It sounded like it. Yeah. And so they would go on Maxine and Georgia maintain their friendship all throughout school, and they graduated in 1946 and then they kind of went their separate ways. Maxine left the state for a bit and Aunt Georgia went on to college, but that was the pivotal year for the family that where Hazel died. So So Maxine's memories of that time were all of Hazel's life and her illness and, you know, she doesn't really have memories about the family after Hazel passed, so, right. But that was that was very nice to sit and talk with them about all of that.

Kim: 3:51

Right. So it was really like a. Nice afternoon and just to mention that Maxine is over 90, 90 years old and she had brilliant recollections about everything Yes. About all the families and all the connections and but it was very nice for her just to hear her say that Hazel was happy and happiest when the kids were there and loved to have them over. That makes me feel just a little bit better because how we would never have known that. How would we have known? Right.

Laura: 4:27

Because there's no way, no one,

Kim: 4:30

no one told us Right. No one told

Laura: 4:33

anything. Yeah. But, you know, I almost can't blame them for not talking about it. It probably was so painful. Yeah. You know, Yeah. And

Kim: 4:41

sad

Laura: 4:42

facts. Sad facts. That's right. Yep. Yep. But there was very, something very special. On Saturday when we met Paula Mona's daughter and my former coworker, very special coworker. She gave us a very special gift. She handed over to us the dress that our grandmother Hazel had made for her mother, Mona.. And if you recall in one of the previous episodes when we were telling Hazel's story, we mentioned that Mona kept this in her trunk packed safely away for somewhere around 80 years, or maybe more than 80 years. And she dug it out when Paula had asked her about Hazel for me. So Right. So it's been, so now we have that. Yeah. And it's a cute, cute little dress. And of course the picture was already put. you know, on the show notes and stuff, so.

Kim: 5:32

Right. And they were saying how it must have been a very treasured item because it was in, with all of her other treasures Yes. Things she held dear. And and they really didn't even know what it was until this came up, until this podcast came up. The, the daughters really had no idea what was, what, what it was, right? Mm-hmm. So that story would've been lost. Right. And

Laura: 5:55

you know, then there were we also realized that, that we have a connection, a common, well, not quite a common connection. The sages are also related to. Aunt Hattie Hattie Faloon she, she should have special music whenever we play. Say her

Kim: 6:09

name. Just dun, dun dun. I'm not sure what, that's what I was gonna go for. Yeah, that's, that's the music I'm gonna keep in my head. So,

Laura: 6:18

so we were related to Carl and they were related to Hattie and I thought, It. It's fun to make those little connections and I'll let Kim tell you about the other big surprise that happened on Saturday. This one was

Kim: 6:29

very cool, and one thing that I wanted to mention about Maxine was she remember who lived in every house because where? Oh, right. Yeah. Where. Where Hazel had first lived in Howland with Stan while she knew who lived in that house and who lived in the one beside her and across the street and all the different families that knew each other and what they would do for fun. And it, it was a great little conversation

Laura: 6:53

and the whole family seemed to know as well, because. These families owned these houses for a long period of time, I think back in the day. Right. And the town hasn't changed that much. No. To

Kim: 7:03

be honest. And so I think, I feel now that I could go to Howland and I could sit and look at exactly where Hazel lived. Right. And where I'd had no knowledge of that before. I didn't really know. And we didn't live in Howland we grew up in Enfield. But we did learn some other things and she was just amazing. And we thank you. Thank you, thank you. But as Laura said, so while we're having this meeting, we're talking with with Maxine, of course, much of the family seemed to be interested and kind of showed up to say hello to us. And it was very nice. It was cool. We got to meet a lot of people. And so the icing on the cake for me, which was kind of funny, I think, which kind of, I don't

Laura: 7:36

know. I'm still laughing. I, I can't help myself, pardon my laughter

Kim: 7:39

in the background. I know and I think everybody else just kinda went what? But so when another family member came in and he, he said hello, was gracious and, and just wanted to say, say hi. And then when he said his name, I almost, my chin dropped on the floor and he said, oh, you know, my. I'm gonna, I'm just gonna say his name. His name was Robert Van Tassel, and I said, what, wait, what? Van Tassel? I said are you the same Van Tassels from Sleepy and then he, as soon as I said Sleepy Hollow, he said Sleepy Hollow. So Kim, I'm

Laura: 8:11

gonna stop you right there, and I'm gonna tell you as a witness to this conversation, it was the funniest thing I've ever seen. It was like two treks meeting each other and talking a separate language.

Kim: 8:21

It was, it was too. Cause

Laura: 8:25

they were just uttering words back and forth, and each one understood what the other one meant, and it

Kim: 8:30

was hilarious. What? Sleepy Hollow, you know? Have you been to the church? The thing? The Yes. The storms. Manhattan. Washington, Irving. What? Yeah. So it comes to find out Mr. Van Tassel. is a very distant relative of mine, and Laura's, of course through my mother's line. And because we, we could trace our lineage back to Sleepy Hollow, New York, which of course, Washington Irving, the headless horseman and all that, but that's not what we're connected with. But so the, the, our family comes from Sleepy Hollow and they were loyalists in Dutch, the Dutch Reform church that kind of Institution and way back we could trace it back to the 16 hundreds very clearly. And then, but what happened was they were loyalists and then during the Revolutionary War, they ended up having to go to Canada because they, they were on the losing side of Revolution. They were no looser welcome. Yeah. They were no longer welcome. It's like, here's your hat. You know, I use your hat. Watch a hurry. Get outta here for the, for the

Laura: 9:28

record is immediately when I told my daughter Whitney, about this little exchange. She said, oh, sleepy Hollow. As soon as I got out the words Van Tassel, because she remembered immediately from the movie Sleepy Hollow, that there was a character in there by the, with the last name of Van Tassel. I don't know why she remembered that, and she doesn't know either, but she immediately connected the two,

Kim: 9:53

so, right. So, so our lines, our lines meet with Mr. Van Tassel. And so the. There's a lot, there's a really strong lineage that comes out of Sleepy Hollow, New York and Terrytown. They all went to Canada and seeped back into Maine when they, you know, when it was appropriate, I suppose. And they made their lives here as well. But so someday I'm gonna do a podcast on that because they're, I, I know now a lot of people who are related to me and. Because of Sleepy Hollow, and one of them happens to be my husband. So me and my husband are like six or eight cousins, something like that. I wasn't sure you were

Laura: 10:30

gonna go public with

Kim: 10:31

that, but Okay. but there's, there's others too. So stay tuned for that because that is Sleepy Hollow is a fun story. And Laura and I thought we might just take it on the road and we might just broadcast from there. That would be really fun. So maybe, I don't know, but, but there's a lot of stories in Sleepy Hollow.

Laura: 10:48

And so this weekend was another example of how Maine is just one big small town. And

Kim: 10:54

that Exactly. I mean, you don't have to, you don't have to go very far before you find someone that you're related to it. Most people don't know it, but I always ask That's the problem. So who, who's your mother? Where were they born? Where are their people? What's your maiden name? What's your maiden name? That's right. Where's your, where's your tree? I need to see your tree. Yeah. And so another thing that we've come to learn is that people who enjoy our podcast we know who we know. You're out there and there's a few of'em anyway, there's a few. And we've heard that you're, you're now gonna be put into a group called the Hazel Nuts. So I'm not sure I you should be proud. You are proud to be a Hazel Nut, so. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So that's enough. Yeah, we, we just had a really good week and we enjoyed all of our company, of the people that we got to talk to. And I now know we're still processing, we're still processing

Laura: 11:45

it. My brain anyway is still processing a lot

Kim: 11:47

of it. A lot of it. And it was fun. We did, I mean, we did. That's a very

Laura: 11:50

good time,

Kim: 11:51

very nice. Good time visit, but Mr. Van Tassel also gave me, Within like two seconds. His lineage back to 1600 and this did, this did not take long. I think I would like to, he went back in the other

Laura: 12:02

room and hand wrote it down and just handed it over. And I just thought, well, and the thing is like,

Kim: 12:10

mines right here. That's right. So I, I have, I now have intentions of trying to, to duplicate his speed. I'm gonna see if I can beat him. But so what he does is, but he also gave you his. So, yeah, I have his email. And the thing he noted though was that in 1600, one of the Van Tassel family members did marry a, a i, did he call it a princess? A Native American. Yes, a Native American princess. And what that means, you know, basically is there's always, people always have stories about that Native American princess in their line, but he does have a name of a, of a Native American that was married into the family from the Montauk tribe. So I'm, that's something that's on my list of things to do on this really snowy day. I want to check that out because that sounds really interesting. So stay.

Laura: 13:02

All right, so now, now we'll dive back into the Nikolai story. So remember we're talking about Salvatore and Ruth Nicolai. They're the ones who married in the Boston area and made their home there only to have Salvatore die at a very young age. And then Ruth and her four children went back to Canada and she remarried only then to pass from an illness during her pregnancy with her fifth child a daughter.. We left that story last week with the young Nicolai children, Philip Rosella, Ruth and Sylvia, and new younger sister Marilyn Rose Jackson, all in Canada. The Nicolais had lost their dad in 28, and then in 36, lost their mom. And so four American children and one Canadian with a biological father to care.

Kim: 13:57

Right. So we will carry on with that. From here, Marilyn Rose was Canadian and she was not allowed into the United States with her siblings. Instead, she stayed in Canada with her dad, and she later married and moved to Manitoba where she had a son. But you know, There you go. There's, that must have been such a tough situation to be separated from your siblings. I can only imagine. Yeah. Yeah. But even though she was a baby, she never, you know, she never knew any different right. But the Ruth's family was split as soon as she passed. and the older four left right after she was born after Marilyn was born. So they were orphans with no citizenship in Canada and so without their mother. So some choices had to be made. So that's kind of a conversation that's really, I mean, that's gotta be a tough one because they had to go, they couldn't stay in Canada. Right. So even if there were orphanages, and even if there were someone else, they couldn't stay and there may be. Some details there that I'm missing. So what happened next was they, they had to go

Laura: 15:03

okay, and. So we also mentioned last week, Irma, broad Kinney. She was Ruth, broad Nikolai's, older sister, only one year separating them. And while Ruth Broad was described as adventurous, Irma Broad was not. So Irma Broad had had moved to the United States, just across the border in Houlton, not far from her home, and had her own family were their husband Harvey. So they had three children who would be first cousins to the Nicolais. Their names were Leola, Winston, and Shirley, and were pretty similar ages to those Nikolai children. In the same month that their mother died in July of 1936, Irma brought those Nikolai children into her home and raised them alongside her own three children. And just a little background on the area. Where they were brought up in Weston Maine population is in the, you know, low hundreds, anywhere from 228 to, I think its highest was 433. and it also Weston borders on Canada. The, and also has a beautiful lake, grand Lake right in the town and the border between Maine and Canada runs right through the middle of that lake. And I thought that was pretty interesting.

Kim: 16:20

And that's where we spent a couple of summers ago. Remember d during covid. we went to Orient and sometimes our cell phone would ping off Canadian Towers, So we were that close. You just throw a rock and hit Canada, but it's beautiful up there. It

Laura: 16:33

is, it is a beautiful lake. And they've got that million dollar view that turned out off route one. Right. That was also, that was great. And when you were there at that lake and those loo. Loons came in. That was the largest number of loons I've ever seen at one time. Right. I don't remember

Kim: 16:50

how many there were, but must have been 12 or 16. And they all just went right by the camp and were singing their song. Yeah.

Laura: 16:57

I've only ever seen like six or seven together at the most. Yeah.

Kim: 17:00

This was a big, I don't, what do you call a group of loons? I don't know. I don't, I'm gonna get back to you on that cuz I don't know, but it was a lot. I'm gonna Google

Laura: 17:08

it while you, okay. All right,

Kim: 17:15

So we have a timeline of events that were written by the eldest Nicolai child, Philip. So he was older and he probably had more memories of what went on, so, but he recalls when they moved to Houlton it was Houlton first I think, and that he, and this is how he wrote it, cut foot with axe nearly bled to death. The summer of 36 That's what he had written. So imagine a man, A few words. What's that? A man. A few words. I would imagine, you know, so he was a young man of about 14 when he got there, and he would have to work on the farm you know, to help and the, you know, have to use the ax well. That can be dangerous. Yeah, very dangerous. But he did go on recover from that and he mentions he went to school for three years in Holton and then he moved with the entire family to Weston in 1938. He graduated from Dan fourth high school. His younger sister Ruth, also recalled working on the farm and all of them earning their keep. So Ruth's had mentioned she was very grateful that Aunt Irma, as they called her, aunt Irma, took them in and felt all of them contributed on the Kinney farm. She had been dealt a tough hand, but made the best of it. And in her words, her own words, she would say she would endeavor to persevere. And to this day, that's what Andrew's calling Sign is kind of just endeavored mm-hmm. To persevere. And Rosella and Sylvia also spent their school years in Weston and graduated from Dan fourth high. Hmm.

Laura: 18:35

Well that's really something. It's, there's a lot to be done on a farm and I'm sure that it was a good, it sounds like it was a pretty good childhood for them, you know, not. For the circumstances

Kim: 18:45

that they had. I think that they were, they were, it's a great place to be. They were accepted with their cousins. They became close with their cousins. And as far as I know, but I'm gonna share some pictures, like the next lady. Yeah. I'm gonna share some pictures of when the kids were older and, but they were on the farm, so their pictures from the farm. And so I'm gonna put that on social media because they're, they're, they're great pictures.

Laura: 19:07

So in the 1940 Census, the four Nikolai children living with their Aunt Irma in Weston, Maine, it also details the census report details that they were all born in Massachusetts and had lived in Canada in 1935. So it seems that Phillip's recollections were pretty good and. in the years between the 1940 and the 1950 census, there'd be a lot of developments. Phillip went into the Navy and served during World War ii, then he was married in 1947 and finally settling down in Virginia to raise his family of three sons. And Rosella married in 1946, and she lived in Maine where she raised her family of two daughters

Kim: 19:47

And then we have ruth Ruth, who happens to be my mother-in-law, so I know a little bit a little more. So Ruth was married in 1946 to James McLaughlin, and so these are my in-laws. My mother and father-in-law, they traveled quite a bit when they first got married as Jim was working and considering where his professional opportunities would be, but they returned to Maine and they raised their family in Lincoln and their family grew to a size of 10. Five boys and five girls. And we'll have more on that later. And then there was Sylvia. Sylvia was the youngest and she was also known as Sibby. She was married in 1948 and she settled in Portland, where she raised her family of two daughters. And this turns out to be pretty important because Sylvia uses the many available local resources. in the story of the Nicolai family. So it was, it was a good thing that Sylvia was here in Portland, let's just say that. Yeah. Yep. I don't wanna tease too much, but Tune in next week. Maybe

Laura: 20:48

So, you know, W as with most families, it can be really hard to maintain the connections. but despite having not lo, I mean no longer having the parents as the, you know, what usually is the elemental glue that keeps people connected? The four Nikolai children were forever connected for the decades of their lives. And as for Irma, broad Kinney, back in Aroostook County in 1950, the census shows her household had five lodgers along with her son and his family. So after most of the children left, they made use of the farm and had a source of an income. And the connection of Ruth Nicholas, four children to their Aunt Irma, uncle Harvey and their cousins never faded either. It was solid. So as you can see, the little family that Salvador and Ruth built was growing and thriving,

Kim: 21:40

right? So we brought you to adulthood for all of the kids, how they were raised on the farm. And it, it was, it was a good upbringing and you'll see their happy faces when I show you the pictures on social media. But it was, it was solid. It was a good, it was a good start and very grateful to Aunt Irma. But next week, we're gonna welcome Lisa McLaughlin Goodwin. So that's my sister-in-law, that's my husband's sister. And we're gonna discuss then what her recollections are of her mom and her siblings. And I have questions, I dunno about you, Laura, but I have questions like I wanna know. That's always questions. How much did the siblings know about their parents? How much do they recall? Because you know, Of course the youngest ones would recall less and Philip would right, recall more, which he did, and he wrote down his recollections of a timeline. But you know how, I wonder how much you know, was told or what kind of stories were forwarded.

Laura: 22:38

right? And where they did live with family, maybe the, maybe Aunt Irma shared stories. Maybe they con continue to talk about the parents or, yep. Or maybe they didn't, you know, so everybody handles it differently. Maybe you know, it could be a, a thing where they didn't talk about her, or, or maybe she did. We'll, we'll, maybe we'll

Kim: 22:55

find out, we'll find out. Sibby gonna be a, a part of the story here soon. So next week we'll get into how they connected with their parents who had passed mm-hmm. and how, how they dealt with it. I'm not gonna give you any hints either because there's, there's some good stories coming up and you really, really, really need to hear them. Right. So we'll leave it at that. And I

Laura: 23:17

did look up what a group of loons is called, and it's called

Kim: 23:21

an asylum. Oh wow. So we saw an asylum of loons. Yes, you did. At Grand Lake in Orient a few years ago, and that was amazing. So asylum. No, I I wouldn't have got that, that one right. And doubt me either. Yeah. But until next week, if you get an opportunity, please rate and review our podcast. Share it with others if you want. And if you haven't heard Hazel's whole story, I invite you to check out our entire episode list. Never miss a dull moment because we've got stories and you know they're entertaining For sure you can reach us on social media and by email at chasing hazel tales@gmail.com. That's all one thing. Chasing hazel Tales gmail.com. Mm-hmm. So until next week, thanks. Thanks for listening.

Laura: 24:11

All right. Goodbye. Goodbye.